Ask Kurt Ballou from veteran Massachusetts bruisers Converge about the band’s early days and you can almost feel the wince of embarrassment down the phone line. Forming the group as a teenager in the early 90s with vocalist Jake Bannon, they performed Minor Threat and Suicidal Tendencies covers before eventually mustering enough gumption to pen their own material, songs perhaps better left unwritten, according to Ballou.

“We started writing our own songs which were God-awful,” laughs the guitarist-producer, convalescing at his home in Salem having just completed a US amphitheatre tour with The Bronx. “We went through a lot of different styles and if anyone out there ever gets hold of our first 7″, it’s the worst piece of shit ever made! Haha!

“We spent a long time trying find ourselves and we went through a lot of different members. There wasn’t really much of a sense of purpose to the band back then other than just beating the crap out of our instruments after school. We were angry at stuff but we weren’t sure what, haha, so it was born out of a lot of teen angst.

“I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the first 7 or 8 years of the band we were God-awful. I wasn’t really proud of our records until Jane Doe in 2001. I think there were some good songs and ideas prior to that but it was the one record I’m totally proud of. Having the new drummer helped a lot in giving the band some focus and there are other factors as well.”

In the days before metal-core became a buzz word for today’s disaffected youth, Converge’s pioneering hardcore on indie label Equal Vision carved itself a lasting niche now revered by the band’s cult fan base and beyond. Not a bad effort for a bunch of mid-teen misfits who never could quite perfect those Slayer riffs.

“We’ve kind of always done everything by ourselves and figured out everything on our own which is great because we’ve developed our own identity,” says Ballou on behalf of Bannon, bassist Nate Newton and drummer Ben Koller. “But everything takes a lot longer that way and you don’t benefit from learning from the mistakes of others, you just make all those mistakes yourself.”

“I think we developed pretty independently. Even the other bands that do influence us, I think it’s hard to get a direct influence from them because I’ve always been really bad at mimicking things. Like when we do covers, I’m bad at nailing the vibe of a cover. I sort of have to do my own thing, which is a blessing.”

Not surprisingly, a hallmark of Converge’s latest album No Heroes, the quartet’s second release for Californian label Epitaph, is an original blend of high-adrenalin metal and pre-dawn hardcore.

“When I set out to make a record I don’t set out to achieve anything in particular other than something that satisfies me musically and artistically,” says Ballou, who produced the album at his own God City studios using a mix of Pro Tools and an old school desk console. “On this record I was just trying to continue the path of writing songs that are both aggressive and innovative and trying to keep it within the confines of Converge. I wanted it to sound like a Converge record but it also needed to be new and exciting and that’s really what I’m in music for - to be excited.”

“We recorded it pretty quickly in a professional recording studio and there wasn’t much of a differentiation between the writing of the songs and the recording of them. We didn’t really practice them, we just wrote them and recorded them. There was no extended period of time of getting to know the songs or play them out. We just went for it and that’s what we’ve always aspired to be - a raw honest band.”

The four guys from South California have made it again; their fourth
and best record has just come out on Epitaph Records and we could
not pass up taking the chance to ask the guys a few questions. We
had the luck to meet Justin, drummer of 98 Mute, and he was kind enough
to let us know all the things we ever wanted to know about his band
and the reasons why they do not tour as often as all the other punk
bands (because the have families). Anyway there are a lot of interesting
things about 98 Mute I did not know, so I fully endorse this interview.

Interview
by Carlo Gironi (carlo@staff.truepunk.com)
with Justin.

Hello ! How are you doing?

Hello, I am doing fine. How are you?

Fine thanks so much!I know this is the boring part for you ,but
would you do a short story of how 98 Mute got together and signed to Epitaph Records?

We had 2 albums out on Theologian and we have always been friends
with > the people over at Epitaph.So Fletcher, our friend, said
we should do something on Epitaph and they said yes and then Fletcher
called us and asked if we wanted to be on Epitaph and of course we
were stoked and said yes.It’s funnty because we never even thought
about it until it happened. We weren’t really looking at the time
but Fletcher wanted to help us out.

Your newest album “After the Fall” is coming out these
days … how do you feel about this album? I think it is your best
record ever, do you agree?

We are very happy with this record. We like it all. Usually there
are things on your albums that you wish you did or didn’t do. With
us there is usually a lot of fucking things we should have done on
our previous albums. But this one feels good to us and we really had
fun recording it. We can actually listen to this album still. The
other ones we can’t even bear to listen to. This is by far our best
album, in my opinion.

What does the title “After the Fall” refer to? Someone
said it is referred to your latest album, “Slow Motion Riot”,
some others say it has to do with the tragedies of 9/11…what’s the
true meaning?

There is not one true meaning. That is why we picked it. It could
mean the fall of the twin towers on 9/11 but it also means the fall
after that. The whole fall of civilization. It also means the fall
of 98 Mute. It is really open ended. I actually first thought of it
when I was watching the game show Jeopardy and it was one of the answers.
It is a book written in the 1950’s. We all just liked the sound of
it. I don’t know what you mean by the tie in with Slow Motion Riot.
I would like to know what that means.

How would you descibe the new record, musically? Powerful, hardcore,
punk …whatever…

In one word I would go with the last description: Whatever. Because
no matter what I say there will be people that disagree and tell me
I am wrong. So I think the album is just aggressive. I don’t know
what punk is these days. It seems everybody has their own definition.
So I will just let the critics decide what it is. You can call us
New Age Opera for all I fucking care.

Instead, talking about the lyrics, I saw there are a lot of songs
that are kind of “anti”: I mean, like criticisms on things
like politics, drugs, hero worship, and also about the punk scene
…can you tell us something more ?

I guess you are right. All of my lyrics are negative and anti in a
way. I guess it is just easier to write about stuff you hate than
stuff you like. I try to write some positive stuff and I get about
2 lines down. Pat writes about things in kind of a negitive way too,
and Doug is the postitive guy in the band. We try not to preach though.
We try not to say that it should be this way or that way. We just
put it out there and let people think about it. We like it when people
disagree with us. It gets people talking. And so in the end a negative
song turns into a positive thing.

What do you think is wrong with the “punk scene”? Do
you see it like an industry?

It is an industry now. But I don’t know if that is, all in all, a
bad thing. This subject is really hard for me to explain. The “punk”
scene is not the same scene it was when it started. But there is no
way that it could be the same. Just like anything else, it evolved.
And just like with anything else there are bad things about it and
good things about it. No matter what people might say, Punk just does
not have the attitude, urgency, originality, anti-establishment, and
vitality it used to have. But then again, how could it. Everything
loses it’s vitality after awhile. This is just my opinion and people
are free to disagree. I think maybe I am getting old and out of touch.
Mabey it is still the same for the kids, but for me it has lost something.
And don’t think that I think 98 Mute is NOT one of the bands that
has lost its vitality. When I give the “scene” a negative
spin, I am including us in that scene. We are giving ourselves shit
more than anybody. When I speak I just speak for us, not any other
band. A lot of bands might think the scene is better now and feel
really good about what they are doing. I hope that is true. I just
like to sit back and question what we are doing. Like everybody, we
have self-doubt every now and then. So I think it is good to write
about it. People might like us more if I say all the correct things
about the scene but I can’t say what I do not believe. So people might
not like what I am saying.I don’t want people to think that I think
that I am punker than the next guy, Because I do not. Again, this
is very hard to explain and I would need an hour of your time. But
mainly I just like to question our scene and what we are doing. If
it gets people upset then atleast it puts some emotion out there and
that is always good!!

Do you see any difference from the scene in the US and Europe?

I don’t really know enough about the European scene to make a good
judgement on that. I don’t want to speak about the European scene
because I am not all that familiar on it. From the interviews that
I have done so far for the European press it seems that in Europe
people define our music differently. People see a real difference
between hardcore and melodic punk in Europe. That could also be true
in the US now but I haven’t done many interviews yet for the US, So
I could be completely wrong and full of shit!!!

Talking about your songs, I noticed they are more packed, fast,
clever and precise that your previous works…do you agree ? How did
you make the song writing transformation in this way?

I agree. We wanted to shorten our songs and have them flow more. We
didn’t over analize our songs this time. We really don’t know how
we do it, we just get together and make a song. We just jam a riff
and then make a song out of it. We really don’t think we are all that
good at it but if people like our songs then we are happy.

Which are the most representative songs from the new album in your
opinion?

Well, the songs that are the most representitive as the typical 98
Mute sound are “True To Yourself”, “Man Of The Hour”,
and “Bullett For You”. But I think the songs that define
the album the best are “M.A.D.”, “Where Did It All
Go Wrong”, and “Something In The Water”.

Once again talking about the music on”After The Fall”,
I saw there are some new elements like acoustic guitars and also a
kind of synth on “M.A.D.” …. what about the acoustic parts…I
think it is a new element from 98Mute …

Definetly some new elements. We wanted to try different things and
we didn’t care if it didn’t sound like us. We just wanted to try anything
and have fun. Some people might not like it but we really don’t care.
We did this album for us and hoped that people would like what we
like. We wanted to try to sound different here and there. I will be
the first to admit that we are not the most original band and so we
wanted to try our best and mix things up. Hopefully it worked in some
fucked up way!!!

The new record was produced by Fletcher from Pennywise … how
was it working with him ? Is he a good producer?

We wouldn’t work with anybody else. He is the coolest. He helps us
besause he loves to make music and nothing more. He has produced all
4 of our albums and hasn’t asked for a dime. How many people would
do that. We are all just friends in the studio having a good time
and doing what we love.

I know you are very close friends with Pennywise… is it just
for music reasons or there is something more?

Well, the band and music thing is just the small part of it. We are
all really good friends because we grew up in the same town. My brother
was Jason, the bassist for Pennywise. He died in 1996. Me and Fletcher
see each other everynight. Jim (singerof PW) was me and my brothers
nextdoor neighbor. I am pretty much family with Pennywise.

You come from So.Cal … and a lot of bands come from that place,
like Black Flag, Descendents, Cirle Jerks, and I could go on forever…which
do you consider your biggest influences?

Our biggest influence is probably Pennywise, because that’s what we
grew up on. Me and Doug would watch them practice everyday and so
it is just natural. But I also think we have the more older sound.
I think Minor Threat is a big influence and also the Adolescents.

How is it to be on Epitaph Records ? If I don’t go wrong, you were
on Theologian before, which are the differences from these 2 record
labels?

Epitaph has been great. We don’t even deserve to be where we are.We
are so fucking lucky to be able to record albums and have people listen
to us in Europe. We would have never even thought this could happen.
Theologian is still our good friend. He was stoked for us. The difference
is that Epitaph has more backing and better distribution. But we were
happy on Theologian and we didn’t take that for granted. Sometimes
we look at each other and laugh because we can’t believe we have recorded
4 albums. We don’t know what the fuck we’re doing. But we are happy
to be doing it.

I read that you will not tour a lot to support your new album,
why?

We just can’t. We all have full time jobs and our singer is going
to law school. From the beginning this band was just a hobby. We never
took it that seriously. We always wanted to be part time. And now
we are getting older and getting married and stuff. We would love
to get over to Europe but it is just so hard. We have other commitments.
Like I said before, We never thought we would even have an album out.
We use the band as an outlet. We wanted it to be fun and once you
start treating it as a full time job then it just won’t be fun anymore.

Are you gonna tour in the USA or Europe ? Will you be at the Warped
Tour?

We will play shows as they come, but we have no plans right now. No,
we are not on Warp.

What do you think of the Warped Tour ? Is it just a good place
to hang out or there is something wrong with shoes selling punk bands?

I think the Warp tour has good points and bad points. It gives a lot
of smaller bands a lot of exposure. It definetly helped us out. But
if you are not on it it can hurt you a lot. Because that is the only
tour all summer long and you can’t compete with it. So all in all
it hurts a lot of bands because you can’t go on a support tour because
all the bigger bands are on the Warp tour. We have been on both sides.
Like I said earlier Punk is not what it used to be. First of all let
me say that VANS is a really cool company I think. Everybody that
I met from Vans have all been so nice and helped us out. But they
are a corporation and they need to make money. But then again if they
weren’t doing it someone else would be. I think when the Warp tour
first started it was really cool and fresh but just like anything
it has grown stale. But then again it is good to have so many different
bands in one place. So, all in all, I don’t know what to say???????

The cover of the new cd is pretty simple, a rising sun… is there some particular meaning with it?

It is actually a sun setting. It could mean anything. But it goes
with the title “After The Fall”. Kind of like after the
day is done ,or like the end of something. It could mean the the sun
is setting on 98Mute…

Final comments?

First of all, let me say thank you very much. I liked the questions.
I hope all is well with you and I hope people like the album. I’ll
leave you with a quote like I always do “There ain’t no rules
around here! We’re trying to accomplish something!!”—Thomas
Edison(1847-1931)

I thank you so much for the time you took to do this interview …
good luck for everything. Rock On!!!

Thanks to you too, bye.