A normal guy, a little over six feet tall, walked by me wearing a light brown jacket. He was unloading some equipment out of the back of a white van. His bleached hair was starting to grow out and his natural brown hair was beginning to show. Then he turned around. It was Jesse Michaels, you know, that singer guy from Op Ivy? He’s not dead after all. What do you say to a man who has inspired your entire teenage life yet you were only in 1st grade when the inspiration began?

Done by Sean Boggs
Photos by Leah Boeringa and Sean Boggs
I said hello. Then introduced myself. After catching his breath and gathering his thoughts, he realized that we had an interview scheduled with each other. Jesse was here, at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland, Oregon as part of the Plea for Peace tour. The Plea for Peace tour is about making people aware of issues such as depression and suicide. If you want more information, go to www.takeactiontour.com His band, Common Rider, was scheduled to perform. Common Rider consists of Jesse on the mic and Mass Giorgini and Dan Lumley holding down the rhythm. You may have heard of those two guys, they were both in Screeching Weasel and Squirtgun to name a few bands. After he finished unloading his equipment, Jesse, my photographer Leah, and I headed downstairs to a small pub.

Well, where else do I begin?
We missed you Jesse, welcome back.
Sean - So, Jesse, how does it feel to finally be on tour again?
Jesse Michaels- It feels good. It varies from day to day, but, overall, the
feeling is good. I think everybody in the band is enjoying it.
S - But you’re havin’ fun though, right?
JM - Yeah, yeah. I am just a little exhausted because I just got out of the
car and I haven’t quite decompressed yet. In general, it’s hard work, but,
yeah, it is a lot of fun.
S - Can you remember the last time that you were in Oregon?
JM - Yeah. Hey, I just want a…is this a brewpub or something?
Waiter - It is.
JM - Great, can you recommend a strong beer that is not as stout?
Waiter - Uh, the IPA is very good.
JM - I’ll take the IPA. I’ll take a pint of that. Okay, I am sorry.
S - It’s cool. So, when was the last time that you were in Oregon?
JM - About six months ago with a friend. Why were we out here? Oh, we were
just doing a road trip or something, just hanging out, went to a few shows.
We have a lot of friends out here. Everybody from Berkeley has friends out
here because over the last seven years there has been this massive
immigration to Oregon because it’s cheaper and yet still relatively hip, I
think that is the appeal of it.
Leah - Would you ever consider moving up here?
JM - I would, except for the fact that there is too much rain for me – I get
slightly depressed.
S - It was actually raining here for the last few days, you picked a good
one. It is almost 60 degrees right now – it’s actually hot.
JM - Wow. Cool. Well, it is almost always raining here, I guess I caught a
window.<
S - What do you think of Portland other than the rain? Ever walked around
town?
JM - Yeah, I like Portland, it is very industrial. But it has its problems,
there is a lot of alcoholism in Portland. Cool town though, I have always
liked it up here.
S - What do you think that you bring to the Suicide Prevention table as part
of this year’s Plea for Peace tour?<
JM - Well, I think, if anything, we bring to this particular tour,
continuity from the previous tours. Plea for Peace tours, for a long time,
were very, very – they sort of grew out of the whole ska/punk thing, because
of Asian Man Records involvement. Now, we don’t really stick to that genre,
but we have roots in it. Just because of, well, I have been linked with that
genre for obvious reasons, and so, in a way, we are brining the spirit of
the past tours, though we weren’t on them.
S - What do you want to walk away feeling after this tour is over with?
JM - We are happy to be playing and we love to rock out and stuff, but when
you look back at things, you usually think in terms of the more altruistic
element of what you have done. I hope that, when we are done with this, we
can say that we played good music, we had a good time, but also, we did
something that was an act of service to people, to our fans, or the kids who
come to the shows. Something that actually could have enriched lives, if
that doesn’t sound too high-handed.
S - What is next for Common Rider?
JM - Well, first we will probably take a break. I am gonna try to write more
stuff. We have to make a decision about what we are going to do next. We
haven’t really figured it out, so far this band – oh, this beer is really
strong, so far this band – tastes like a .7 or a 7 or something. Whew. This band primarily moves from one project to the next. Um, we will plan
something; we’ll do it, and then decide the next thing after that. And we
are still in the process of doing things.
Although, we have tentative plans to do very short tours of the UK and
Japan, with Plea for Peace.
S - Oh, you are gonna take the show overseas?
JM - Yeah, but it is gonna be much smaller, like we would be headlining, if
that is imaginable. But, with a couple local bands from wherever we went. I
think that is correct, but I am not sure. That is what we are hoping to do.
L - Do you guys get any response from those people overseas?
JM - Who knows? People may be completely indifferent or there could – I
would imagine it would be much like here, where you’ll get 80 to a 100 kids
who are really into it, a handful more that catch on and a certain
percentage who are like, huh, what the fuck is this?
S - How do you take criticism?
JM - (Long pause) It depends. I haven’t encountered too much of it, but,
when I do, I take it well. I don’t invite it. I am not the kind of person
who enjoys and seeks out criticism. I am pretty secure in my mission in life
and with what I am doing, and I generally don’t cater too much to other
people’s feelings, although I pay attention to them. I do okay with it.
S - 1989 – what music did you listen to back then?
JM - Well, ’89 I can remember very well because that was a period in my life
when I was the most excited about music. Public Enemy was huge, Stiff Little
Fingers, The Buzzcocks, The Clash of course, local East Bay punk bands like
Crimpshine, Neurosis, the early stuff, a lot of hip-hop, Boogie Down
Productions, and a lot of dancehall type reggae, which was in its first wave
back then, stuff like Yellowman.
S - Ever get into the whole grunge scene?
JM - You know, when Nirvana came out, I have to admit, sort of a guilty
pleasure, I was just as blown away by them as everybody else. So I was
really into them. Never really found any of the other bands interesting. I
thought Nirvana was a really, really exceptional band. From the very first
time I heard them, I was pretty blown away. I didn’t think it was much more
than a heavy rock band, I didn’t think it was anything particularly new, but
I though they totally rocked from the beginning.
S - Where were you on September 11th?
JM - September 11th, I was in a recording studio in Lafayette, Indiana, we
were working on the new Common Rider album, and actually Mass called me that
morning and told me what was going on. And, he was all worked up about it,
he’s like, ‘we’re under attack,’ so, totally freaked me out. But, one interesting point about that, was the day before we had recorded
the song Cool This Madness Down for the record and in the song their was
this entire verse that had an extended metaphor about someone working on a
large tower, which sorta represented, you know, a consumerist society, and
every night the person would get done building the tower it would crumble to
the ground. And I am sure you remember the big hoopla after that happened,
everybody was running around changing and taking songs off records and stuff
and I did the same thing. I took that verse out of the song cuz I didn’t
want that verse to be misconstrued as a reference to September 11th. Just kind of a weird, interesting story, it’s like a total coincidence.
L - Did you take it out entirely or just change the words?
JM - Well, I changed it. I changed the words.
S - Did that day inspire any other songs that weren’t recorded yet?
JM - You know, part of my feeling about that event, I don’t mean to downplay
it, is that this is the kind of thing most people in the world live with
every day. So, when it happened here, I don’t consider myself a highly
political person, and I have over the years, had enough of a political
consciousness to know that this is the reality that most people live with
all of the time. So, when it happened here, I was like, ‘okay, this is a
terrible, terrible thing,’ but it’s not something that is out of the blue.
It is not something that is so unpredictable, or so weird. So, in a way, it
had an impact on me, but it didn’t change my view a hundred percent, because
I have always been sort of aware of this kind of thing going on anyway.
S - Big subject change: I hear you love movies.
JM - I do, I love movies.
S - Have you seen any movies recently that have been amazing?
JM - Ah, yes, this is a good question; I like to talk about movies. A recent
movie that I have seen that was good was this amazing movie, people should
try to see this, its called, the Believer, and the Believer is about a
Hasidic Jewish guy who becomes a Nazi skinhead. It sounds crazy, and it is
crazy, but its really, really smart.
The guy is out of his mind.
It is just about his life and the cool thing about this movie is they never
really explain why he is doing it, it’s just about this incredibly
conflicted person.
That was really good. What else have I seen? You know, I love movies, but
most of the ones that I see I don’t think are that good. Its always tough
sorting them out.
S - What are some terrible movies then?
JM - I hated Shallow Grave, that movie made me angry. And I hated Happiness.
I generally hate movies that use extreme violence or gratuitous shock value
in place of having a heart. For example: movies that combine extremely
sadistic violence with humor I find offensive.
L - You’re not a fan of Tarantino then?
JM - Yeah, like, okay, my take on him, these are dangerous questions, I’ll
sit here and run my mouth…
L - Good.
S - That is the point.
JM -…my take on that guy is he is so smart and he is so good that he is
going to make good movies no matter what. However, that element of his
movies where he combines humor and extreme sadism I think is gimmicky and
cheap, and I hate that element of his movies. But, anyone who could watch
Pulp Fiction and say that it doesn’t haven anything good about it is just
crazy. I mean, it’s just so smart and has so many cool homage’s to things
that people who care about movies like, that you can’t entirely hate it.
S - Do your parents ever comment about your days back in Op Ivy?
JM - Not really. You know, Op Ivy wasn’t big when it was around, so the
whole phenomenon has happened afterwards. Both my parents are involved with
academics, so, their main comment has been, oh, this or that student has
come up to them and they told the student that they were related to me, and
the student freaks out. Their main exposure has been on that level. And they
think it’s funny, just like I do.
S - Did you keep any souvenirs along the way?
JM - I didn’t, I have a, you know how some people obsessively collect
things, I obsessively get rid of things. So, I don’t have that much old Op
Ivy stuff.
S - So do you regret anything then?
JM - No, no regrets. I never regret getting rid of things.
S - Do you have any siblings or ever been married?
JM - Yeah, I have a brother and a sister, a younger sister who is named
Louisa and an older brother named Ethan.
S - What is the most extravagant item in your house?
JM - I live very modestly, I’m almost monk-like in some ways. I mean, I
don’t have that much stuff. The most extravagant item in my house might be
my guitar because I do have a guitar that was custom made for me.
S - The GPC?
JM - Yeah, so I would say my guitar and maybe my computer, but my most
people’s standards, that is not very extravagant.
S - Favorite foods?
JM - I’m not a vegetarian, and I like filet minion which is sort of a guilty
pleasure because I have vegetarian leanings. I eat that once in a while, but
generally speaking I like to eat vegetarian things. I really like pasta. I
really like bread with olive oil and garlic and I like salads.
S - Are you a sports fan?
JM - I am really into basketball.
S - Do you like the Lakers, because they are our enemies up here in
Portland?
JM - No, I can’t stand the fucking Lakers. I hate the Lakers. Hate them. And
I hate Phil Jackson. I think that they would have won regardless, but it
bothers me the calls they get sometimes. Any team that Phil Jackson is
coaching gets crazy calls all night long.
S - What teams do you like?
JM - I like Detroit because of Ben Wallace. I really like, uh, for some
reason I can’t remember, I am totally brain farting, uh, the team that Jason
Kidd plays for…
S - The Nets.
JM - …yeah, them, because Jason is an old Berkeley boy, you know, we love
that guy. Oh, I like Sacramento a lot - Bibby. Those guys are great.
S - You haven’t been following the baseball playoffs?
JM - No, I am not a big baseball fan. I mean, I respect it, it’s kind of the
American sport, and I see the beauty and the science of it, but I have just
never taken the time to get into it.
S - There is a lyric in Conscious Burning where you say, ‘When I step down
they’ll retire my mic forever, hang it next to jersey 23 at the United
Center.’ Cannot help but wonder if you are comparing yourself to Michael
Jordan?
JM - Well, (laughs) well, this wasn’t something that I normally do in a
lyric, but the song was supposed to be like a rap or a dancehall reggae
battle motif, so I certainly wasn’t literally comparing myself to him.
S - What are your favorite songs from both Op Ivy and Common Rider?
JM - My favorite songs from Op Ivy are probably Sound System, Take Warning,
the Crowd, pretty much the hits. And from Common Rider I really like
Castaways and I really like, what is that called, Midnight Passenger off the
new one.
S - Are both of those on the set list tonight?
JM - Yes.
S - Good. I love Midnight Passenger.
JM - Right on.
S - Are there any songs that you have recorded that you aren’t happy with?
JM - (Laughing) Yeah, I ton of them. Actually, I never listen to our shit,
most of it I find hard to listen to, even the ones I like. So there is a lot
of stuff that I am not a big fan of, but at the same time I don’t want to
talk a shit about it because I know other people like it, which I am
grateful for.
S - Okay, well, we are both 19, which is the same age you were in Op Ivy, so
do you have any words of wisdom for us so that we can make it to our
thirties?
JM - Yes, yes, the main thing for 19-year-olds out there to remember is that
the early twenties through the mid-twenties are a period of incredible
mental anguish so you have to remember that it is temporary and it goes
away. And as long as you get through it, you are on the winning side.
S - How did the deaths of both Joey and Dee Dee affect you?
JM - Well, I was very sad, I wouldn’t say very sad, I didn’t know them, but
I certainly felt sad.
I think one thing that is sort of sad about the Ramones is that if you think
about the millions and millions of dollars that have been made in punk rock
in the last fifteen years and you think about the fact that they basically
invented it, especially pop-type punk. I mean, they were really the
inventors, and I think that they never quite got their due. Although they
are a respected band and in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, so, it just made
me realize that, wow, I hope at some point those guys get what has been
coming to them all along, the surviving members.
S - You brought up the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, do you think that Op Ivy
will ever be considered?
JM - I don’t think so, you know, as big as Op Ivy was and as lucky as we
were, there is still a massive discrepancy between what gets acknowledged in
the mainstream and what is acknowledged by fans. You really have to be
plugged into the machine, to a certain extent, and if this sounds bitter,
it’s not, I am nothing but grateful for everything that has happened with Op
Ivy. But it’s true that unless you are sort of plugged into the industry
slash media slash corporate machine type of aspect of music, in some ways,
you go unrecognized.
S - If you had to walk across the street right now to that record store and
buy two CD’s, which two would you buy?
JM - Oh, wow, that is a tough one. I might check out that new Queens of the
Stone Age, cuz everybody is talking about them.
S - They are playing at the Crystal tomorrow I think.
JM - Yeah, they are following us by a couple of days. At a couple of the
shows our guys have gone over and seen them. I haven’t checked them out. So,
Queens of the Stone Age is one that I have been meaning to get and maybe a
Creation record, I have been wanting to listen to Creation lately.
S - Is there anything else that you would like to say?
JM - Just thanks to all of the people who checked us out and come to the
shows.
S - We are done.
JM - Cool, that was a great interview. You have really original questions.
S - Oh, I have read most of your interviews and the interviewer always asks
the same five damn questions: What have you been up to? Do you talk to Tim?
And it is like, well, I know the answers, why do I want to ask them?
JM - Yeah, I answer those questions about four times a night. That and the
reunion question too. ‘Are you gonna do a reunion tour?’
S - Is Tim here?
L - Can I have his phone number?
JM - (Laughing real hard) Where’s Tim?
FOLLOW UP TO THE INTERVIEW - 11/18/02 - Jesse likes us, he really does, our lives are complete. The Mavs are rocking this year!
Well, the tour is over, ready to do another one?
-Hell no I’m gonna chill for a while..
Anything happen along the way that was interesting?
-Met hundreds of great people. Meeting all the people at the shows was truly
inspiring and reminded me that there is still a tremendous amount of
kindness and intelligence in the world, in spite of everything. Found out
that we shouldn’t open for huge emo bands (Thursday)- they are great, and
couldn’t be nicer, more genuine people; but their fans could care less about
Common Rider. some of the shows were really tough. My two favorite moments
of the entire tour were: Swimming in the pacific in San Diego and then
swimming in the Atlantic at night in Florida- sublime, spiritual moments
that gave me strength for the whole
rest of the trip.
Any plans with Common Rider right now, or just getting some sleep?
I would like to do some music that is really raw, built from the live
experience. Then play shows and record it. Common Rider has functioned thus
far as a studio band that plays live which is the reverse of how to properly write songs. the correct method is that the studio should
capture the live essence, not the other way around. Live and learn. The main
thing is keep going and have fun.
Are the overseas Plea for Peace tours still a possibility?
Yes, but farther in the future than previously planned.
Looks like Jason Kidd has learned to shoot over the summer, what are your
basketball predictions, if any?
Jason Kidd sets up plays. Hence, he’s one of a very few players in history
to lead the nba in assists three years in a row. Add to this his ppg
average, which would be respectable even for a forward, and you have one of the best players in the league..should John Entwhistle have
learned to play guitar solos? However, of course its nice to see him busting
a few heads, as long as he doesn’t start trying to carry the Nets rather than support them..(yawn) Now that I’ve bored everybody, my
prediction is I’ll be watching way fewer games than I’d like because I can’t
afford cable-
Movie question: VHS or DVD?
-Usually technological advances are a mixed bag, but VCRs have always been
slow, clunky and tempermental so I say DVDs all the way. Plus when you’re
watching “The Big Lewbowski” you can fast forward past those unbearably pretentious dream imagery sequences which slow down the whole
fucking movie.
Music question: 7″ or CD? -7″ if you are playing songs for other people, CD if you are listening to
them yourself.
And finally, are you gonna do a reunion tour and do you ever talk to Tim,
Matt and Dave?
-Ha ha ha. Couldn’t resist eh?